it's funny, but...

[kyrene]

People are apparently preferring to raise a stink over the ULC thing versus my new name.

I love it!

When I get home I'm going to look into Cherry Hill Seminary for priesthood training. I've heard of them and seen their stuff for years but haven't been able to do anything with them--and they seem to be pretty reputable. If I wait for Hellenic training like everyone else is (and I did) it'll be ages before I can accomplish anything worthwhile.

So, fuck it. Doing it all on my own and bulldozing through.

Comments

[daeron.livejournal.com]

And you're surprised by this why? Hell, even you have been negative on ULC in the past. I don't know why calling yourself Pythia would be an issue, since it was more of a title than a personal name anyway. A job description, if you will.

As for Cherry Hill (and I always want to laugh at that, living, as I do, about half an hour from Cherry Hill NJ), it's an interesting looking site. You might be able to customize a program so that it's less Pagan and more pagan (note the capitalization issue. I have a problem with them using Pagan as a religion, but that's my hang up), and maybe more Hellenismos in orientation.

I'm still planning on plowing through most (if not all) of the Hellenion program, and asking you and a few others to look at my stuff, and offering ideas for what else I can do.

[kyrene-myste.livejournal.com]

Oh no it was more like the choice of which one they were more likely to speak up and be against than anything else.

Basically ULC AFAIK doesn't provide any sort of clergy training so it's poof, you have the legal backing and it's state dependent on whether or not it's real. I did it to cover my ass legally and not much else--hence why I'm seeking training separately. I got ordained via a ceremony in a group I belong to but it won't hold water in court, even less than ULC.

I thought Cherry Hill was in VT, but I could be misremembering....

[daeron.livejournal.com]

No no, Cherry Hill (the one in question) is in VT. It's just amusing.

And yeah, I understand why you went the ULC route. But I also understand why folks are making noise about it.

[kyrene-myste.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, ditto. But I'm just surprised that they find it more offensive. ;)

See, you don't remember perhaps some of the convos back in the day on HP on calling yourself a Pythia. Or maybe you do; I can't recall how long ago they were.

[daeron.livejournal.com]

Hrm. I don't remember those conversations. Of course, I've been around through a LOT of "oh please give it a rest" convos, so who knows anymore.

[kallistos.livejournal.com]

I dunno about the state dependent part of being real. From what I can tell, states can't make those kinds of judgments. All they can ask for is the letter of good standing which the ULC will provide.

They actually have some basic advice over at the Monastery, nothing too fancy, but they do warn about having to actually do things to gain respect, and even try to get non-profit status and stuff.

I can see why you went the route. I was a bit surprised since you were down on them. (Everyone is, it seems).

I dunno why being ordained by any group would not hold water in court. Again, usually you just need some letter of good standing by that group. Now if they're not a registered non-profit, it may raise some eyebrows.

Still this may just be due to some quirks in MA law or something. Still check with a J.D. I don't know if being ordained clergy will help much with the divination bit.

I would recommend some real training though. I have considered it, so has Caryolyn and a few others who feel a calling, and have eyeballed Cherry Hill. Some other Divinity schools might be willing to help design an M.Div program for our rather special needs too.

[chantrea.livejournal.com]

Not exactly on topic, but I want to know how the heck you managed to change your lj user name without creating a completely new journal and telling everyone to re-friend you and your new journal.
:)

[kyrene-myste.livejournal.com]

Rename token. You have the option of redirecting people to your lj and/or keeping everyone on your friends list.

[eternalhearts.livejournal.com]

I see you're getting in with the Spira folks--good to see :-P

[athanasios.livejournal.com]

I met the director of Cherry Hill at PSG last year at the Academic Pagans meet and greet. Interesting fellow. I would say the program is satisfactory although I have my doubts.

The best priest training I had was being a Benedictine Monk within Catholicism and then living with a Catholic priest for a time.

When I finish my BA in religious studies (I'm close at 192 quarter hours) I hope to attend Divinity School (Vanderbilt is my first choice). I would rather go this route than the on-line Pagan schools out there.

[kyrene-myste.livejournal.com]

The sorta training I'd be doing would be along the priest counseling route--which is why I eyeballed their program. Being involved in oracular consultation is VERY counseling heavy. I've done divinations for people for nearly fifteen years now, and specifically on behalf for Apollo for the past nine or so.

Basically I want all of my t's crossed and i's dotted.

[kallistos.livejournal.com]

Yeah, most seminaries have a lot of christian theology and stuff that is rather irrelevant to us. I'd be interested in the pastoral counselling bit.

[kallistos.livejournal.com]

The best priest training I had was being a Benedictine Monk within Catholicism and then living with a Catholic priest for a time.

When I finish my BA in religious studies (I'm close at 192 quarter hours) I hope to attend Divinity School (Vanderbilt is my first choice). I would rather go this route than the on-line Pagan schools out there.

I would consider the RCC seminaries as being very good ones. So I'm not surprised that you found it very good. But do the Benedictines provide training towards the Holy Orders for all regular clergy?

Going for M.Div?

[athanasios.livejournal.com]

I was a Benedictine something like 15 years ago, and am no longer Roman Catholic. But the training was good. Regarding M.Div, once I finish Wright State (Religious Studies senior) I hope to attend either Vanderbilt Divinity School or a U.U. Divinity for M.Div.

[ravendreamer.livejournal.com]

You will have to tell me how cherry hill is. I looked at their website but I couldnt find the courses that go into the required program. I would offer you the Spira clergy training program, but it would probably be inconvenient for you. It involves three years to get to that point and then we do a training by actually leading a group in our 'anticipant' program

[kyrene-myste.livejournal.com]

How would three years be inconvenient? That's what I'm looking at via Cherry Hill...

[ravendreamer.livejournal.com]

Ours is a program of learning via doing. Everyone goes through the first year (seedling) and then a two year program after that (Liana). The liana program can be fasttracked to one year though. Those two levels you probably know most of the stuff already. By that point you hope to have enough people to form a local group (at least 3). If you do, you can be doing your 'root anticipant' (clergy training) at the time your group is forming. And you learn by actually doing in that capacity.

[kyrene-myste.livejournal.com]

Learning by doing is typically the best way, IMHO. Much of what I've learned I learned "on the job", so to speak.

The sort of program that I'd be looking for is really specific, and I think that the pagan pastoral counseling prog is the closest I've seen yet. If it came with classes on oracular trance I'd be golden.

[ravendreamer.livejournal.com]

We dont teach pastoral counseling. You learn a bit of that by working with your own group in that capacity, but its not somethign we teach outright. Basically the rest of the roots (our clergy) are there as support and to ask questions on how they handle things, but generally its a jump in with both feet type of thing for that. We do teach a bit of Oracular Trance in the liana year. Its a type of divine channelling for us and we have used it before. I have done it many a time channelling Apollo. Often, the real art is in deciphering the message. Like in times gone by, I am sure that was the challenge as well :)

[kyrene-myste.livejournal.com]

I've done what has been described as "full on invocations" before, but I think it'd be great to swap notes and get training with people who can help me to improve those skills and teach me things I haven't heard of before.

I've learned quite a bit working in groups and I agree that you can learn a lot in that regard, but you can't possibly run into every scenario within a small group. Some, yes, but not all. Hence why I want to get more formal training.

[ravendreamer.livejournal.com]

I agree. In a small group you dont really cover all the bases and scenarios. Its worked ok for us in Spira as in the entire organization we run into alot of scenarios (although we still run into some new stuff here and there :) ).

We should totally compare notes sometime. We do what you would call "full on invocations" throughout the year. At this point I have probably done about 45 of them....I stopped counting a few years ago. Each month is a different deity combination. I used to do this with Apollo in the summer months and Dionysos in the winter. Now we have someone else that does the Dionysos ones. I have also "invoked" Artemis, Selene, and Hekate. We have had alot of other ones in our grove though that have been done: Hermes, Eos, Isis, etc. We call it a "drawing down" although I do believe its different from what the Wiccans call this. I have seen the wiccan ones where it is scripted. I find that weird....but thats me. If you ask about drawing down (spiric style) on the spiracanada yahoo group you will get alot of info there...