In reply to another person's lj on the term Hellenismos & where the Y! group HellenicPagan began...

[kyrene]

HellenicPagan started out as a generic place for ALL people who worship the Greek gods--and even people who worshipped Roman gods were welcome too. It was never a "strictly recon" place and for people who wanted that, I started Hellenismos-L.

I don't like the idea of using the term Hellenismos to mean "recon Hellenic religion". You can practice Hellenic religion without being recon. In fact, I'm in favor of ditching the label altogether. We don't NEED to reconstruct anything anymore--we have all of the information we need to start actually worshipping right here and right now without having to constantly check musty old academic texts written by Christians attempting to interpret pagan rituals through Christian eyes and paradigms.

I don't recall the last time I called myself a recon. When I first began in such practices, it was to build a foundation for practice. The foundation is already there. We can stop pretending we still don't know enough to practice our own faith. Everything we have is right here.

I like HI because we're not only doing mystical stuff but we're also doing practical stuff right in the real world. THIS is where practice becomes reality: when your practices are indistinguishable from your day to day life. It just becomes a part of who you are throughout your day.

End semi rant. :)

Comments

[fallenkalina.livejournal.com]

Nice.... I like the bit about building a firm foundation while getting out there and DOING things. They aren't different points on a binary.

[eternalhearts.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the clarification regarding HP-my post was in reply to someone saying that it was originally a recon list.

[kyrene-myste.livejournal.com]

Ah, the historical revisionism. It's like when people claimed Drew Campbell started Hellenion. I'm thankful and grateful that people actually edited Wiki to correct that crap; he was one of the founding members but he sure as fuck didn't start it.

HP was NEVER, EVER a recon list. All people have to do is read the archives to see how the list originally was. It was a much friendlier, kinder place for everyone where people shared personal spiritual experiences and came from all backgrounds.

[shellsong.livejournal.com]

"HP was NEVER, EVER a recon list."

I can vouch for that, since I was one of the very early members.

[chironcentaur.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see you've gotten wind of the bullshit, too. :-P

You know, it has been years since I was reading Hellenic Pagan (it was just too high traffic at the time I stopped), but I never remembered that as being a recon list. I always thought it was just a place for anyone who worshipped the Greek gods, and I was confused when it was brought up in that context. Though I don't know what else to expect from people that don't know nearly as much as they think they do.

When I first began in such practices, it was to build a foundation for practice. The foundation is already there. We can stop pretending we still don't know enough to practice our own faith. Everything we have is right here.

That is beautiful :-)

[romulus214.livejournal.com]

I think that while a strong foundation is important but i think there comes a time when we need to put away the books, the labels and get practicing our own paths- and let others worship as they see fit-

But since pple are worry warts, and police others, is the reason they bitch that not everyone is recon-

I have come to realize that Recon wasn't for me-yet you don't see me policing them, why can't they just stick to worshiping the gods as a point of unity not HOW we practice?

[owl-clan.livejournal.com]

I can speak from within the oldest and most conservative of the Recon religions- and while I'm not a hard ass, I do understand one thing about the hard-asses: they don't want to have to be associated with (and mistakened for) the fluff bunnies who really think that the Gods are stopping by everyday to chat with them. Patron Gods that may send you the occassional dream or omen to guide you are one thing. Saying that Zeus or Aphrodite told you to drop your land line and go cell only is something else entirely. I've had the great pain of having to meet people who really thought that "Hekate" was telling them- daily- what to do and who to be friends with, and most importantly, who NOT to be friends with- and interestingly enough, "Hekate" appeared right on time, everytime this people got into fights with their friends, to tell them to dump them.

In our perspective- which we believe reflects the historical (and sane) perspective- the Great Gods are busy running the universe, killing and fighting Titans, and keeping busy with greater matters than whether or not a human being can get a job at Microsoft or whether or not a person is getting along well with their friends from the internet. The personal Daimon-guardian may well be interested in the facts of a person's day to day life, and the Ancestral spirits of their family may be interested in those things, but I don't think Great Zeus really is. Dionysos, on the other hand, I think has an exemption, just as Odhinn does in Asatru, because these two Gods are specifically mentioned by older sources as being especially interested in mankind- and Dionysos himself is half-human, so he has a connection with human beings that some of the other Gods lack.

I hope you get what I'm saying. A religious organization must offer some sort of vision of maturity and seriousness to people, or people's religious lives will turn into narcissistic fantasies and lead them away from wisdom. And beyond that, being associated with people who really think that they are talking to the Great Gods on a daily basis is just humiliating.

[owl-clan.livejournal.com]

The foundation is already there. We can stop pretending we still don't know enough to practice our own faith. Everything we have is right here.


Fuckin A!

[shellsong.livejournal.com]

I am slowly catching up to the latest sacred drama festival. Honestly, I've been much happier since I decided to avoid "the community" altogether, but when it explodes on my friends page, I have to look.

For the record, I continue to be a somewhat eclectic *Hellenic polytheist*. Not a recon; certainly not an Andersonist.

Fortunately, that fact can't be altered by fanatics with delusions of grandeur. It's like the Pope saying only Catholics are real Christians. He can say it, but it won't make all the other Christians disappear, and everyone can just point and laugh at his self-importance.

[theophania.livejournal.com]

I don't know what to call myself. I'd like to be recon, in the sense that I follow the religion as it was practised in ancient times, with exceptions for modern life and new discoveries/views. But I always wind up doing my own thing. I say my own made-up prayers to The Godsat night (usually the same formula), pray to specific ones if I need things and try to keep my promises to them and offer them things in return, pray to Hestia/offer sacrifice when I eat. But I can never just sit down and read the ancient texts, neither the cademic (loved your comments on those btw) nor the mythic which are more enjoyable. It's like if it doesn't have to do with modern Hellas, I don't get involved and that's bad. After all, where did we come from and why do I have all this pride inside about being Greek. So in the end, I just call myself a Hellenic Polytheist and try to worship The Gods to the best of my ability.