kyrene: (Default)
You're so vain!

You probably think this post is about you, you're so vaaiiinnn....

You probably think this post is about you, don't you, don't you....


Jul. 31st, 2008 10:57 am
kyrene: (Default)
How did I manage to get sucked into the whole "is magick Hellenic" conversations yet again?

Is it because tonight is the dark moon? Because we have an eclipse soon? Because clearly I'm not being entertained enough on other emailing lists? I can has a more amusing Intarwebs, y/y?

Maybe it's the mystique, the sheer art of it all, the je ne sais quoi, the whole question of whether or not magick is de rigeur in Hellenismos or perhaps it's that whole "Omgs! I don't want to be lumped in with the neo-pagans/Wiccans/witches/uncool-kids-who-sit-in-the-front-of-the-bus!!!!!111eleventy-one" crap which I find to be so embarrassingly passé.

I'd make paper airplanes loaded with spitballs and fire them away at these people, but I really don't want to get after-school detention.

So, um, about those um, Greek gods. Um, yeah. They're like wicked cool an' stuff. Yeah.
kyrene: (Maenad with thyrsos)
HellenicPagan started out as a generic place for ALL people who worship the Greek gods--and even people who worshipped Roman gods were welcome too. It was never a "strictly recon" place and for people who wanted that, I started Hellenismos-L.

I don't like the idea of using the term Hellenismos to mean "recon Hellenic religion". You can practice Hellenic religion without being recon. In fact, I'm in favor of ditching the label altogether. We don't NEED to reconstruct anything anymore--we have all of the information we need to start actually worshipping right here and right now without having to constantly check musty old academic texts written by Christians attempting to interpret pagan rituals through Christian eyes and paradigms.

I don't recall the last time I called myself a recon. When I first began in such practices, it was to build a foundation for practice. The foundation is already there. We can stop pretending we still don't know enough to practice our own faith. Everything we have is right here.

I like HI because we're not only doing mystical stuff but we're also doing practical stuff right in the real world. THIS is where practice becomes reality: when your practices are indistinguishable from your day to day life. It just becomes a part of who you are throughout your day.

End semi rant. :)
kyrene: (Default)
No new things for Hellenists! The ancients found them scary and therefore so must we. After all we should model ourselves after them in order to be good Hellenists and not incur the wrath of the gods!

No more Livejournal, emailing lists, or computers for us. Or you're not a real reconstructionist. And you risk the wrath of the gods.

Just remember to say NO to the wrath of the gods! Ban all new things!!
kyrene: (Default)
You're so vain,
You probably think this post is about you,
You're so vain,
You probably think this post is about you, don't you, don't you?
kyrene: (Default)
I'm bored of the 5,000 other Hellenic lists I'm on, and I'm frankly jealous that so many people are out there doing really good stuff and receiving credit where credit is due.

I know! I'll start Hellenic list #5,001 to talk about how wonderful they are so people will talk about how wonderful I am for doing so! That way I won't feel left out!

kyrene: (Default)
I know that y'all love my rants better than popcorn chicken. Just admit it.

Actually, the very last time I had popcorn chicken was when I had mono. That was when I was in bed all day and had NO appetite so if I craved anything that day, I ate it and that was my day's worth of food. This was also a few years before I realized that animal protein forces my body to commit sepuku and hence had to give it up in all of its forms.

But I digress.

I've been in the Hellenic community for nearly a decade now. I know of a few people around who have a strangely myoptic view of the events that occurred then, enough to credit me with the founding of said community. I can take credit for starting HellenicPagan and helping to start Hellenion but really that's about it. I couldn't do jack shit without the aid of other people.

Hence where this rant comes in. I can't do jack shit without other people. I am not the Hellenic equivalent of Jesus Christ who will swoop in, miraculously get shit done and solve everyone's problems by getting myself nailed to a few pieces of wood. When I ask for people's help, I do it with the expectation that they will either say "Yes I can" or "No I can't" or "I can do it, if..." Either way, I expect a response. I expect people to be adult about it. I also expect if they express a strong opinion, they give reasons for it versus "Well I just don't wanna" or insulting other people out the door without giving clear reasons for their insult other than whatever medication they're on that week.

Do not bitch about how this community does nothing but emailing lists and websites, and then turn around and tell me that your answer to a poll is "fuck it" because you don't have the balls to back up an opinion on a vote to actually fucking DO SOMETHING. Anyone in this community knows me this well: I don't give two shits and a fuck if you disagree with me. Or a single shit or a fuck. Just tell me why and have the balls to at least tell me you disagree. That's really all I ask. I don't want yes men, I don't want "I follow Kyrene the Almighty Leader Ommmmm" men; I just want people who can THINK and express why they think that they do. I can't be swayed otherwise and I certainly won't be convinced by "I just think it, like, freaks me out, man."

I do not ask for the world. I do not ask for people to agree with me. I do not WANT people to agree with me all of the time, pretend to agree, or try to kiss my ass repeatedly. I do not ask for people to STFU, nod and smile. I want people to come in, challenge what I think, and give me good reasons for doing so. Only then can I learn from you, you learn from me, and we actually accomplish something other than a bunch of emails back and forth on a stupid emailing list. I can't figure out wtf you want if you don't tell me what you want or why you want it. Nor can I help to direct a failing attempt at an organization if all you do is keep silent except to express your noncommital disagreement to moving forward without providing a reason as to why.

This is an issue which has been going on for as long as I've been in the community. Nothing's changed except the issues and the players. I'm frustrated because I can't get people to hear what I'm saying, and I'm also annoyed that people take it personally that I expect them to think and express what they think and instead take it as a personal attack on them disagreeing when all it is, is my expressing my frustration that they won't give me reasons as to why other than bullshit like they don't feel like it or whatever. In the meantime, they create blockades around getting shit done that shouldn't have blockades around them.

What this community needs is an enema and a backbone. In that order.

End rant. For now.
kyrene: (Default)
In regards to recent posts of mine to the lists, my recent reply to Hector on HP pretty much sums it up:

In short, I expect too much from people on the Internet--most likely
due to my own self-expectations.

Secondly, my patience in dealing with others is at an all time low,
I suspect due to working 60 hour weeks with no nights or weekends to
myself in about a month. That sort of thing tends to take its toll
on people's nerves, I'll admit. I have a three day weekend coming
up and I plan to use it for vacation time to visit NYC and do some
research for my fiction novel--which is coming out soon. I
desperately need the R&R and time away from the damned computer.
This weekend I only have a reprieve because they're doing something
with the electricity on the floor so we had to power down our
computers yesterday before we left. So by proxy I can't do any work
this weekend--which I'm sure my boss will love, not.

I'd bitch more about the lack of weekends and nights these days were
this company not agreeing to compensate my company for every hour of
OT, which in translation means I get paid for it. When all of this
is over, I'll be able to pay off a lot of debt I incurred due to the
purchase of my home, which will take a huge chunk of stress off of
me. But in the meantime, I'm definitely billing them for every hour
I spend running around like a lunatic on this stupid project.

Actually, this email could've been summed up in two statements: I
need to get laid, and I need a vacation.
kyrene: (Red maenad)
It's interesting how you look at the way you behave in one place and behave in another, and I can't help but notice that it's like going back to your high school reunion and fall into old patterns of behavior you haven't had in years. I'm too used to engaging in a certain role in my religious community, and it's not helping the rest of the matters I rant about any. I think it's about time I act the way I do elsewhere.

In all honesty, I think that they're right about one thing: I really do need to lighten up. I've been taking all of this seriously why?

From now on, I resolve not to take any of them seriously.

popcorn and tickets will be provided for at the front of the entrance
kyrene: (Default)
This is my LJ.

These are my opinions.

If you don't like it, you can do the following:

1) Delete my messages on the list as opposed to replying with the usual histrionic "OMGS! How can you believe xyz oh nooooess!!!111" with subsequent personal attacks, childishness, and general bullshit the likes of which I thought I left behind when I graduated high school,


2) You can, like, not read my LJ,


3) BOTH!

It's really quite simple.

kyrene: (Default)
This list has been dead for a while but I just woke it up with a few nifty ideas to tackle as group work/discussion, including going over the Homeric and Orphic hymns to Apollo and such.

I think that it could finally give the list the kick it needs. It was a really active list for a while then got kinda quiet.

Link for the curious:
kyrene: (Default)
Today's Taurus forecast from

People say and do the most ridiculous things. They act out dramas. They play out roles. They adopt attitudes and they take up stances. They throw themselves into their parts, they nurture and nurse their opinions - and they deny fiercely that they have ever thought or felt anything different to what they think and feel now. And then they wonder why the world is so full of intransigent people! Life is now urging you to put something down, let something go, move something on.

No kidding...
kyrene: (Maenad with thyrsos)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Elias J. Theodoracopoulos <>
Date: Jan 26, 2007 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [CLASSICS-L] Zeus Worshippers Seek Access to 1,800-Year-Old Temple in Greece

There are still some scattered remnants here and there. Those that involve communal animal sacrifice are mostly on Samos (bulls killed on March 25, I recall, with Orthodox priests blessing the event). Individual animal sacrifice is still practised in the killing of cocks (roosters to the refined) at the foundation of private houses.


-------------- Original message from Mark F Davidson < MarkFDavidson@GMAIL.COM>: --------------

> James M. Pfundstein wrote:
> >> Until these eager neo-pagans get real and slaughter a bull or two
> >> in central Athens, I shan't worry that they have much to do with
> >> ancient religion at all. At the moment, this is paganism lite.
> >
> >This doesn't seem like a reasonable argument. Ancient Hebrew religion
> >also involved animal sacrifice, but modern Judaism does not. Medieval
> >Catholicism involved the rather more brutal practice of murdering
> >human beings for their religious beliefs (a practice which had a
> >continuous tradition with ancient religious practice) but modern
> >Catholicism does not. And there were opponents to animal sacrifice in > >the ancient world: I seem to remember that Theophrastus, quoted in
> >Porphyry, was one. Then you have Empedocles, Pythagoras etc. Ancient
> >Greek religion was not as univocal on this subject as MB makes out.
> It seems to me that the difference is that there is no continuous living
> tradition in the case of the ancient Greek religion. Judaism and
> Christianity have continuous traditions which evolved over time. (And
> Judaism was forced to give up animal sacrifice when the Temple was destroyed.)
> There were no doubt isolated individuals who opposed animal sacrifice, but
> the overwhelming mainstream of classical Greek religion practised animal
> sacrifice until it was suppressed by Christianity.
> I suppose that neo-pagans are not obliged to revive ancient religion in the
> same form as it once existed (to whatever extent we even know all the
> detai! ls), bu t then they are making up a new religion which adopts some
> elements of the classical religion, and the connection is tenuous, which is
> Mary Beard's point.
> Despite many changes, the connection between ancient and modern Judaism, and
> between ancient and modern Christianity, is not tenuous because they have
> always had continuous living traditions.
> Do these neo-pagans really believe in Zeus with the same conviction that
> that Christians believe in Jesus? This is perhaps not a fair comparison,
> because many educated or intellectual people in the ancient world didn't
> take the gods that seriously themselves. So let's rather ask, do these
> neo-pagans believe in Zeus with the same conviction that modern Hindus
> believe in the Hindu deities? Again I doubt it. This is more of a made-up
> intellectual and emotional game rather than a real religion, because it has
&! gt; no grounding in real life and culture.
> Perhaps if they continue practising it, and bring up their children in
> neo-pagan communities, then in a few generations it will become a real
> religion, in an analogous way to Hebrew being revived as a living language.
> It's certainly not there yet. And in my opinion it's not likely to ever get
> there, because the belief is not deep enough to stick.
> Mark


Dec. 21st, 2006 01:27 pm
kyrene: (Default)
We created a public list waaayyyyy too soon.

And of course people are so desperate for STUFF that they'll go running screaming towards it.

And some will think that because we're discussing ideas and getting feedback that means that they're part of the decision making process.

This could get bad.

I'm glad shit is happening, don't get me wrong, but I'm already seeing talking in circles and people COMPLETELY missing the point of what we're trying to do. The temptation to kick everyone off the public list and call it "closed" until we're done is more than a little overwhelming right now, but the feedback is good regardles and we got to see this through.
kyrene: (Default)
And so I return to HellenicPagan with this post:

And this email was the magic spell that summoned me back to this
list. Wow, people not only getting a clue but POSTING about it! Omgs.

Hector, I remember the list you had for Heliogenna from the last time
you tried to start this up and I am frankly game for whatever it is
that you're cooking up for the solstices. I rather like Helios and
Selene in my personal practice and I don't think that they get honored

I'll probably mostly lurk and am uncertain if I'm to be trusted with
mod duties right now, as I might wind up reading some of the stupidity
while intoxicated and "accidently" delete this list. If you guys are
so hell bent on everything being ancient, sell your damned computer
and go live out in the wilderness or something and leave the rest of
us alone to cope with the 21st century. kthxbye


--- In, "aingealoreiad"
<aingealoreiad@...> wrote:
> So WHAT that this is modern? If you want strictly ancient worship,
> SOL to be honest cause we were only left with so much information.
> damn lucky to have it too--lok at CR and Asatru, they were left with
> nothing and they are all doing much better than Hellenics are. Grow
the F
> up and start acting like adults--people don't all agree, accept that.
kyrene: (Default)
I just cleaned my yahoogroups out quite a bit, removing myself from a bunch of groups upon which I was standing on ceremony. One list was for a group that was supposed to start up in my area for the Religio Romana, and the guy went off and got some gov't job and had to disappear. No posts for almost a year from that one and he's the sole mod with his email listed as bouncing. The rest were all lists along same lines, no posts and done with standing on ceremony. I'm overusing that expression but I really am at a loss for what else to call it.

It's a similar thing with the NR priesthood list. Once again, every couple of years, the head suddenly remembers that he has like, a priesthood just sitting around there doing nothing with our hands tied because he clearly isn't around, doesn't care, or both. Countless emails have gone out to him over the years asking him wtf I'm supposed to do as priestess of Apollo, and not a single one were replied to. He claims that I've never replied to his, but ya know...I'm no idiot. I never got them, nor did they somehow wind up in a spam filter either. That one is on its last legs with me. I'm waiting to see what happens over the next few months before I figure out what to do with my membership in NR after the past nine years or so--I suspect that once again he'll forget about us and then I'll give up and leave, as I REALLY have better things to do with my time and my money than continue to support a group that well, isn't doing anything. I've stuck around only because people begged me to do so and frankly at this point I have to ask WHY?

It's the waning moon, an excellent time to purge my life of dead weight. That and I'm PMS-y, IBS-y, and shivering in my pjs at home. What better way to spend my spare time? Aside from WoW, that is. ;)

Oh yeah and my new spiritual path is a particular trad of Southern Italian witchcraft. Yay for belonging to a trad where the esoteric and mystical isn't kept separate or locked away in some dark corner somewhere, and I can still worship my gods--which is really what's important to me. And the answer is no, it has nothing to do with Raven Grimassi. :P :)

And the best part about it all?

I'm HOME. And I don't mean just physically, either.


kyrene: (Default)

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